10 Comments
User's avatar
Joseph de Castelnau's avatar

When did two respected agile leaders start speaking by each other so much. What happened to Marshall Rosenberg's NVC? From Jurgern I hear: I am using all this provocative language and hyperbole so that I can triangulate a new audience and size a market for my hypothesis of AI aided agile. For me that theory sounds doable as long as it includes KPIs for rewarding, fun work. (Passions!). From Bob, I hear, AI and agile seem not in sync at all. It affects my busines and I have to take the moral high ground. What I really hear is: How do I port the principles of agile in a AI world that is confusing. My take: let's work better together (the 3 of us) and have a healthy conversation over Google meet to see how we can move things forward. Much better than reading past words sometimes co-penned by AI.

Expand full comment
Bob Galen's avatar

Thanks for this, Joseph. I tried to add intentional clarity here - https://bobgalen.substack.com/p/be-better-bob

Expand full comment
Joseph de Castelnau's avatar

@Bob Galen. I was not suggesting you apologize. Quite the contrary. I was suggesting we work out our differences together. I respected your strong opinion. I understand why you would not want to fight windmills (I feel that way too). I am simply saying why waste all these colliding/motion and do nothing about it. There's friction, there is an opportunity funnel. My gut feel: we are all trying to figure out what motion (what we used to call agile) is in the world of AI and we could all use some healthy debate time to get to the same solve around the same problem statement (it will be hard to do around digital words)

Expand full comment
Brian Rain's avatar

As a second generation Agile Coach, I owe a ton of my learning journey to both of you. You both are thought leaders who have helped countless Agilists deepen their surface knowledge to truly develop an Agile mindset.

To be candid, I think both of you have done a disservice and haven’t acted like true thought leaders.

Bob - I think you’re correct to draw similarities between the explosion of Agile and AI. However, what I think you missed in your article is the part about we are Coaches first and the domain is secondary. Agilists first, and our domain is secondary. Applied Agile and AI our secondary domains to both what is represented in the Agile Mindset of values and principles, and our role as coaches. (I know this largely learning from your works and teaching.)

Jurgen - It’s poor form to show disappointment or offense when someone criticizes your public thought leadership. If you’re posting on Bob’s substack, you already know he is a thoughtful and genuine person who advocates for what he knows is best, from his point of views.

We need the both of you to lend your thought leadership of interactions and individuals through collaboration and discussion to reach a shared understanding of what is impacting our world of Agile, shrinking as it is, and the emergence of AI, whether fade or Terminus.

Do better. Please, there’s a lot at stake, and now is no time for the A team to be in penalty box.

Expand full comment
Bob Galen's avatar

Thanks for this, Brian. I tried to add intentional clarity here - https://bobgalen.substack.com/p/be-better-bob

Expand full comment
Joseph de Castelnau's avatar

Thanks, would you help organise a zoom session where we can all hash it out?

Expand full comment
Bob Galen's avatar

I feel like we've already hashed it, Joseph. TBH, I clarified my intent for this piece and I've moved on. I'll leave it to others to hash...

Expand full comment
Jurgen Appelo's avatar

It has been the very purpose of my newsletter to take the balanced position, to find the nuance between the extremes. I navigate between hype and doom, between utopia and dystopia. Sometimes, I offer an uplifting piece. Other times, I am more gloomy. But I stick to the middle ground.

Have you done any research into my articles and the purpose of my blog? I find it quite offensive and condescending to publicly call me out for being unbalanced and claiming that I should "be more responsible."

You clearly didn't read my other posts before you made this accusation. Who is being irresponsible here, I wonder?

I'm disappointed in you.

https://substack.jurgenappelo.com/p/youre-an-ignorant-fool

Expand full comment
Bob Galen's avatar

I'm a bit disappointed in myself. That said, we all need to look in the mirror and evaluate our responsibilities for balance, messaging, etc.

I failed this time and for that, I apologize.

https://bobgalen.substack.com/p/be-better-bob

Expand full comment
Jurgen Appelo's avatar

Thank you, Bob. I appreciate that.

I admire people with integrity.

There are too few of them.

Wish you the best.

Expand full comment